Controversial: Abortion

[Painaid]

A few of you are grasping at straws. Abortion is not about religion, though it certainly can have that context. Pro-Life people believe that unborn baby's right to life is more important than the woman's right to choose. It comes down to what you consider a fetus alive or not... i.e. - How far along must a pregnant woman be until that baby is a human being with the inalienable rights of life, liberty, etc? Once they are human, their fundamental right to life trumps choice. And many laws do support a baby's right to life before being born -- just look at the Lacy Peterson Laws.

If you don't want the baby, let a caring foster home care for it then. Even though I'm a dude and don't really feel comfortable discussing a woman's right problem, I lean towards giving that baby life over a woman's emotional stress.

[Llare]

Pro-choice. Women's bodies are their own business.

No arguement tbh.

And in the case of a rape, I still think it's wrong to abort, What if you were a mistake?

Tbh if i was a mistake and knew about it and all the details, i'd probably wouldn't have wanted to be born - for my mothers sake.

Think about it. No father and the evergrowing cost of raising a child. Thats just not fair on the mother.

The mother ruins her life to give birth to some gypsycreature she doesn't want. Thats like buying something from a faggy salesman that won't leave you alone.

[Kore nametooshort]

A few of you are grasping at straws. Abortion is not about religion, though it certainly can have that context. Pro-Life people believe that unborn baby's right to life is more important than the woman's right to choose. It comes down to what you consider a fetus alive or not... i.e. - How far along must a pregnant woman be until that baby is a human being with the inalienable rights of life, liberty, etc? Once they are human, their fundamental right to life trumps choice. And many laws do support a baby's right to life before being born -- just look at the Lacy Peterson Laws.

If you don't want the baby, let a caring foster home care for it then. Even though I'm a dude and don't really feel comfortable discussing a woman's right problem, I lean towards giving that baby life over a woman's emotional stress.

its not just emotional stress that the woman will go through, the woman will have to carry the baby for 9 months and give birth to it which im led to believe is quite painful. Also carrying the baby can in some circumstances pose a possibly lethal risk to the mother. What would you suggest in these situations?

I think it perfectly reasonable to allow abortions upto the 5-6 month mark since to me it doesnt seem human, its just a slightly advanced ball of cells that is essentially part of the mother. I dont know at what point a fetus becomes a baby, but up until that point it seems reasonable to abort the fetus.

Moments of weakness on part of the mother should not result in 9 months of her suffering inorder to let 2 cells eventually become a human.

Tbh if i was a mistake and knew about it and all the details, i'd probably wouldn't have wanted to be born - for my mothers sake.

Think about it. No father and the evergrowing cost of raising a child. Thats just not fair on the mother.

The mother ruins her life to give birth to some gypsycreature she doesn't want. Thats like buying something from a faggy salesman that won't leave you alone.

/agree

[Painaid]

its not just emotional stress that the woman will go through, the woman will have to carry the baby for 9 months and give birth to it which im led to believe is quite painful. Also carrying the baby can in some circumstances pose a possibly lethal risk to the mother. What would you suggest in these situations?

I think it perfectly reasonable to allow abortions upto the 5-6 month mark since to me it doesnt seem human, its just a slightly advanced ball of cells that is essentially part of the mother. I dont know at what point a fetus becomes a baby, but up until that point it seems reasonable to abort the fetus.

Moments of weakness on part of the mother should not result in 9 months of her suffering inorder to let 2 cells eventually become a human.

Argument for emotional stress seems like a crutch to me. By becoming older you also take upon yourself certain responsbilities. The Pro-Life movement is just as much about choice as Pro-Choice is essentially. The woman chose to have sex. She chose not to use protection. She chose not to use the morning after pill. Therefore, expect to face the consequences. In the same sense, if I choose to commit a crime, I can expect to do the time. I don't get a choice about this. It's a consequence of my actions.

Add rape in this mix and it gets complicated. But it gets even more complicated if you try to draw a line where a fetus is no longer "a bundle of cells" as you put it nicely, and an actual human being. Is it really possible to draw such a line? Some babies are born months prematurely and they turn out just fine. Additionally, there are some laws where if a pregnant mother is murdered, the person who committed the crime gets charged for two murders. You can't commit a murder until the baby that woman is carrying is considered a human being with a right to life.

[Kore nametooshort]

Argument for emotional stress seems like a crutch to me. By becoming older you also take upon yourself certain responsbilities. The Pro-Life movement is just as much about choice as Pro-Choice is essentially. The woman chose to have sex. She chose not to use protection. She chose not to use the morning after pill. Therefore, expect to face the consequences. In the same sense, if I choose to commit a crime, I can expect to do the time. I don't get a choice about this. It's a consequence of my actions.

Add rape in this mix and it gets complicated. But it gets even more complicated if you try to draw a line where a fetus is no longer "a bundle of cells" as you put it nicely, and an actual human being. Is it really possible to draw such a line? Some babies are born months prematurely and they turn out just fine. Additionally, there are some laws where if a pregnant mother is murdered, the person who committed the crime gets charged for two murders. You can't commit a murder until the baby that woman is carrying is considered a human being with a right to life.

Yeah i realise that there is no where you can draw a line and say here its a fetus and a day later its a baby, but there is definately a period where it is definately not a baby. The mother that had sex without protection and didnt take the morning after pill may not have known that she was pregnant until weeks later, and to say that she should have taken a pill anyway is impractical since she might not have had the money for one, or she might have been too scared, or too stressed by the prgnancy scare to make a decision.

There are also instances where protection is known to have failed. A woman may not realise that her condom split, and would not have known to take the morning after pill.

Just because a law says that killing a pregnant woman is the same as killing two people doesnt necessarily make it correct. I agree that it is a good indicator but there are some laws that i dont agree with, such as Bush;s sanctions against stem cell science for instance.

I agree that after the point where you cannot guarentee that it isnt sentient you should not be allowed to terminate it, but up untill this point, i.e. you can guarentee that it is still just an advanced bundle of cells, I seeno moral issues with a termination.

[Llare]

Argument for emotional stress seems like a crutch to me. By becoming older you also take upon yourself certain responsbilities.

Would you want to give birth to a child you don't want that then destroys your life. Much MUCH harder to find a partner if you decide to keep the baby after birth. There's the physical pain and the the change to the shape and size of the women's body, which can destroy a women's confidence and even her personality to an extent.

But it gets even more complicated if you try to draw a line where a fetus is no longer "a bundle of cells" as you put it nicely, and an actual human being. Is it really possible to draw such a line?

/agree. It all depends on the individual at this point. They'd then be suffering through the arguements of people on both parties, that can cause stress aswell.

I'm sure it's common for women to regret abortions as much as some women, whether or not they vocally address it, do with childbirth. I'd personally like it to be illegal for people to explain there positions or even try to influence impregnated women, whether raped or not.

[Bragh]

Anyone else herd of birth depression. Which in some cases can be the cause of a suicide, if it's not caught, and the womem gets help!?

Saw that on the news yesterday.

[Painaid]

Would you want to give birth to a child you don't want that then destroys your life. Much MUCH harder to find a partner if you decide to keep the baby after birth. There's the physical pain and the the change to the shape and size of the women's body, which can destroy a women's confidence and even her personality to an extent.

This is why I don't feel totally comfortable talking about abortion. I'm not a woman. So I can only relate by analogy. If I rob a general store, I will go to jail. This will also cause emotional trauma and can destroy my personality and respect I once had in society. But just because it will do all these negative things doesn't mean I have the right to skip out on doing the time.

Call it a weak analogy if you want, but it's the best I got. America has a reputation for placing punishment over rehabilitation. Perhaps that says something about the way our society works more so than the abortion debate ever could.

And just for another anecdote. Not all 'accidents' are bad. Many women have accidents, but they choose to have the baby instead of having an abortion. Since they are too young to care for it, they initially choose a foster home that they will give the baby to. But when the young woman gives birth and holds her newborn baby in her arms for the first time in that hospital bed, an instant bond of love forms between the two that really cannot be explained. Can this feeling of attraction be overstated? It's easy to list the trials and turmoil a woman must go through while she is pregnant, but yet an opposite and possibly more powerful story lies at the end when she is finally holding that accident in her arms.

[Kore nametooshort]

This is why I don't feel totally comfortable talking about abortion. I'm not a woman. So I can only relate by analogy. If I rob a general store, I will go to jail. This will also cause emotional trauma and can destroy my personality and respect I once had in society. But just because it will do all these negative things doesn't mean I have the right to skip out on doing the time.

Call it a weak analogy if you want, but it's the best I got. America has a reputation for placing punishment over rehabilitation. Perhaps that says something about the way our society works more so than the abortion debate ever could.

And just for another anecdote. Not all 'accidents' are bad. Many women have accidents, but they choose to have the baby instead of having an abortion. Since they are too young to care for it, they initially choose a foster home that they will give the baby to. But when the young woman gives birth and holds her newborn baby in her arms for the first time in that hospital bed, an instant bond of love forms between the two that really cannot be explained. Can this feeling of attraction be overstated? It's easy to list the trials and turmoil a woman must go through while she is pregnant, but yet an opposite and possibly more powerful story lies at the end when she is finally holding that accident in her arms.

Your analogy is poor, i appreciate what you're trying to say, but having sex isnt a crime. Sex is positively encouraged by society. People shouldnt have to risk becoming irreversibly pregnant because abortions are illegal just by having sex, whereas its completely reasonable to be sent to jail for a crime.

Also not all women love their children, the vast majority do, but you cannot base a general solution on the majority, it has to work for every situation, and in those situations its better to abort the birth early, when it isnt a child than have the child brought up by a neglectful single parent.

[Druiddroid]

fuck abortion, that thing can barely breathe. idc about abortion that much

i'd rather focus on animals/humans that have shitty lives, ie chickens and africans. the way i see it there's already overpopulation and abortions aren't going to harm that. but there's beings out there living shitty lives and i'd rather pay attention to that

that's just my 2 cents though

Your analogy is poor, i appreciate what you're trying to say, but having sex isnt a crime. Sex is positively encouraged by society. People shouldnt have to risk becoming irreversibly pregnant because abortions are illegal just by having sex, whereas its completely reasonable to be sent to jail for a crime.

people are stupid, ignorant, and close-minded, including myself

the way i see it, society is controlled by corporations which are controlled by the drive of money, and you have to judge for yourself, wether or not something is right or wrong. not if society says it is, but if YOU say it is